It is currently 22 Oct 2017, 06:16

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 254 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 13  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2013, 06:34 
Offline
porter
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2013, 14:02
Posts: 1169
back over some other place we had an inspiration thread, and it was a mannered affair that, in its less fortunate days, looked and felt something like an 18 year old girl's tumblr feed. I thought for some time of something to the effect of an inspiration thread for this venue but without limiting it to photography or any clear limits at all beyond whatever little existing structure there is in place at the moment. have been hesitating with getting new threads going, hoping for things to arise out of the discussion amongst already here, but felt it an appropriate point to start this one while reading an obituary, of all things. both the subject matter and the way it was written made it compelling and definitely worth sharing with you lot.

Quote:
Bill Millin, piper at the D-Day landings, died on August 17th, aged 88

ANY reasonable observer might have thought Bill Millin was unarmed as he jumped off the landing ramp at Sword Beach, in Normandy, on June 6th 1944. Unlike his colleagues, the pale 21-year-old held no rifle in his hands. Of course, in full Highland rig as he was, he had his trusty skean dhu, his little dirk, tucked in his right sock. But that was soon under three feet of water as he waded ashore, a weary soldier still smelling his own vomit from a night in a close boat on a choppy sea, and whose kilt in the freezing water was floating prettily round him like a ballerina's skirt.

But Mr Millin was not unarmed; far from it. He held his pipes, high over his head at first to keep them from the wet (for while whisky was said to be good for the bag, salt water wasn't), then cradled in his arms to play. And bagpipes, by long tradition, counted as instruments of war. An English judge had said so after the Scots' great defeat at Culloden in 1746; a piper was a fighter like the rest, and his music was his weapon. The whining skirl of the pipes had struck dread into the Germans on the Somme, who had called the kilted pipers “Ladies from Hell”. And it raised the hearts and minds of the home side, so much so that when Mr Millin played on June 5th, as the troops left for France past the Isle of Wight and he was standing on the bowsprit just about keeping his balance above the waves getting rougher, the wild cheers of the crowd drowned out the sound of his pipes even to himself.

His playing had been planned as part of the operation. On commando training near Fort William he had struck up a friendship with Lord Lovat, the officer in charge of the 1st Special Service Brigade. Not that they had much in common. Mr Millin was short, with a broad cheeky face, the son of a Glasgow policeman; his sharpest childhood memory was of being one of the “poor”, sleeping on deck, on the family's return in 1925 from Canada to Scotland. Lovat was tall, lanky, outrageously handsome and romantic, with a castle towering above the river at Beauly, near Inverness. He had asked Mr Millin to be his personal piper: not a feudal but a military arrangement. The War Office in London now forbade pipers to play in battle, but Mr Millin and Lord Lovat, as Scots, plotted rebellion. In this “greatest invasion in history”, Lovat wanted pipes to lead the way.

He was ordering now, as they waded up Sword Beach, in that drawly voice of his: “Give us a tune, piper.” Mr Millin thought him a mad bastard. The man beside him, on the point of jumping off, had taken a bullet in the face and gone under. But there was Lovat, strolling through fire quite calmly in his aristocratic way, allegedly wearing a monogrammed white pullover under his jacket and carrying an ancient Winchester rifle, so if he was mad Mr Millin thought he might as well be ridiculous too, and struck up “Hielan' Laddie”. Lovat approved it with a thumbs-up, and asked for “The Road to the Isles”. Mr Millin inquired, half-joking, whether he should walk up and down in the traditional way of pipers. “Oh, yes. That would be lovely.”

Three times therefore he walked up and down at the edge of the sea. He remembered the sand shaking under his feet from mortar fire and the dead bodies rolling in the surf, against his legs. For the rest of the day, whenever required, he played. He piped the advancing troops along the raised road by the Caen canal, seeing the flashes from the rifle of a sniper about 100 yards ahead, noticing only after a minute or so that everyone behind him had hit the deck in the dust. When Lovat had dispatched the sniper, he struck up again. He led the company down the main street of Bénouville playing “Blue Bonnets over the Border”, refusing to run when the commander of 6 Commando urged him to; pipers walked as they played.

He took them across two bridges, one (later renamed the Pegasus Bridge) ringing and banging as shrapnel hit the metal sides, one merely with railings which bullets whistled through: “the longest bridge I ever piped across.” Those two crossings marked their successful rendezvous with the troops who had preceded them. All the way, he learned later, German snipers had had him in their sights but, out of pity for this madman, had not fired. That was their story. Mr Millin himself knew he wasn't going to die. Piping was too enjoyable, as he had discovered in the Boys' Brigade band and all through his short army career. And piping protected him.

The Nut-Brown Maiden

The pipes themselves were less lucky, injured by shrapnel as he dived into a ditch. He could still play them, but four days later they took a direct hit on the chanter and the drone when he had laid them down in the grass, and that was that. The last tune they had piped on D-Day was “The Nut-Brown Maiden”, played for a small red-haired French girl who, with her folks cowering behind her, had asked him for music as he passed their farm.

He gave the pipes later to the museum at the Pegasus Bridge, which he often revisited, and sometimes piped across, during his long and quiet post-war career as a mental nurse at Dawlish in Devon. On one such visit, in full Highland rig with his pipes in his arms, he was approached by a smartly dressed woman of a certain age, with faded red hair, who planted a joyous kiss of remembrance on his cheek.


|| original article link.||

_________________
which pyre shall the moon ignite each hour
which pyre in my library crimson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2013, 05:08 
Offline

Joined: 29 May 2013, 02:29
Posts: 19
That's probably one of the most interesting articles that i have read about in quite some time. I didn't know that there were pipers during the war and certainly not ones that had to pipe during D-Day!

Being a HUGE WWII enthusiast, stories within the war hold a great place in my heart. The personal experiences and stories of individuals within that crazy time are treasures. As the years roll on and WWII veterans age and pass, these stories told by those that were there and experienced them will become fewer and fewer until there are no more. I remember that every time I was at the VA hospital and knew of a WWII vet in-house, I made efforts to talk to them and hear their stories. The same goes for those that had survived the holocaust. I recently met a local woman (a twin actually) who had been part of Josef Mengele's twin experiments. Her stories are beyond incredible and at the same time terrifying.

War and warfare has changed so much since WWII and even since the Vietnam war era. Technology has increased, the individual experience of war has changed (some say for the better). The stories have changed. I think that the era of the 40s and WWII has some of the richest and most beautiful stories of people meeting people, and humankind at its best and its worst. Some of the events that come to mind are those where Americans and Germans would share supplies and drinks on holidays and have a cease fire, only to restart the next day, the passing on of letters and photos by comrades in arms, boys drafted in, sharing foxholes late at night under fire. Hollywood has certainly romanticized it, but one cannot deny that there is some beauty in the midst of the carnage.

My interest in that era and the individual's experience of war has extended into my designs as well.. influences from such things as the senninbari belts created by Japanese soldiers' wives, mothers and village women; thousands of red knots tied into each one as prayers and well wishes for their loved one going into battle. Really beautiful stuff.

A few photos (sorry some are large due to being pulled directly from sites);

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2013, 07:40 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2013, 23:35
Posts: 266
Location: los angeles
stolen from somewhere else, this is a pair of seamsters sewing up a nasa heatshield


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
✧・゚:*✧・゚:* \(◕‿◕✿)/ *:・゚✧*:・゚✧


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 13:49 
Offline
french crew
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2013, 19:11
Posts: 9
Chinorlz wrote:
Being a HUGE WWII enthusiast,


WTF?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 17:10 
Offline
porter
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2013, 14:02
Posts: 1169
..??

there are people who take interest in military history research from different periods in time, etc.. Doesn't seem particularly wtf-worthy.. Would you like to explain what you meant by that though? IE: had he said 'american civil war' or 'russian civil war' or '7-day war', would it have made his statement less wtf-inducing?

_________________
which pyre shall the moon ignite each hour
which pyre in my library crimson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 22:04 
Offline
engineer
User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2013, 08:10
Posts: 774
Location: Germany
thanks for posting the article, merz, it reminded me (also after having read what Chinorlz said) of Céline and especially of Vonnegut's Billy from Slaughterhouse-Five.
Quote:
It was a movie about American bombers in World War II and the gallant men who flew them. Seen backwards by Billy, the story went like this: American planes, full of holes and wounded men and corpses took off backwards from an airfield in England. Over France, a few German fighter planes flew at them backwards, sucked bullets and shell fragments from some of the planes and crewmen. They did the same for wrecked American bombers on the ground, and those planes flew up backwards to join the formation.
The formation flew backwards over a German city that was in flames. The bombers opened their bomb bay doors, exerted a miraculous magnetism which shrunk the fires, gathered them into cylindrical steel containers, and lifted the containers into the bellies of the planes. The containers were stored neatly in racks. The Germans below had miraculous devices of their own, which were long steel tubes. They used them to suck more fragments from the crewmen and planes. But there were still a few wounded Americans though and some of the bombers were in bad repair. Over France though, German fighters came up again, made everything and everybody as good as new.
When the bombers got back to their base, the steel cylinders were taken from the racks and shipped back to the United States of America, where factories were operating night and day, dismantling the cylinders, separating the dangerous contents into minerals. Touchingly, it was mainly women who did this work. The minerals were then shipped to specialists in remote areas. It was their business to put them into the ground, to hide them cleverly, so they would never hurt anybody ever again. The American fliers turned in their uniforms, became high school kids. And Hitler turned into a baby.

Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-Five


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 22:23 
Offline
french crew
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2013, 19:11
Posts: 9
merz wrote:
..??

there are people who take interest in military history research from different periods in time, etc.. Doesn't seem particularly wtf-worthy.. Would you like to explain what you meant by that though? IE: had he said 'american civil war' or 'russian civil war' or '7-day war', would it have made his statement less wtf-inducing?


Sure. Words matter sometimes i suppose, here i took this expression out of context on purpose to emphasize its incongruity. being a "huge enthusiast" for a war is a somewhat weird phrase don't you think?

BUT here is an interesting topic: my bewilderement comes from the systematic use of the "technical" point of view, which is very often favored by many of us, esp. Chinorlz. Of course there are areas where it is certainly legitimate (which ones?), but regarding war, it raises some difficult issues, all the more with WWII, and the fact that nazis were probably the group of people who were the most 'technically minded' ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 23:26 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2013, 23:35
Posts: 266
Location: los angeles
Only specific technologies, which fit in with the party's vision. Plenty of medical and scientific literature, like Magnus Hirschfeld's entire library, was lost.

_________________
✧・゚:*✧・゚:* \(◕‿◕✿)/ *:・゚✧*:・゚✧


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 05:01 
Offline
porter
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2013, 14:02
Posts: 1169
BSR wrote:
and the fact that nazis were probably the group of people who were the most 'technically minded' ever.


pretty sure there is a fallacy of logic contained in the above, although the subject itself is interesting in terms of the different ways that we relate to things and subject and the way in which we perceive things. albert has been perhaps the foremost representative of what has come to be considered the technical approach, certainly not exclusive to the way he looked at clothing. carol very liberally uses elements and patterns from WWII uniforms. just as i sometimes wear a ek2 ribbon sewn through the second buttonhole of a jacket - the aesthetic value partly carries the context, but to what extent must these things be bound to their origins and must they also answer for their original (or more broadly recognised) selves' transgressions?

there was an interesting article on appreciation/value in art boiling down to the technical for a certain audience.

|| Why jeff koons made michael jackson white ||

Quote:
"Let’s be honest. The loud and continuous message that Koons’s work sends, and which those who support him embrace, is that the amount of money required for the fabrication and acquisition of his work is the shining mark of his success. Art, in this case, is beside the point: production is all. It is the tautology of the rich investing and reinvesting in ever more expensive productions.

Koons’s shiny objects, especially the ones using toys and comics, evoke the naïve security of a child who believes his parents will protect him from any trouble, from any vicissitude of life. The uber-rich believe their money will protect them from everything and anything, including their ceaseless meddling in human affairs, which they do to a far greater extent than the classical gods. In obsequiously seeking their favor, Koons has retreated into a preschooler’s sense of security as well as an idolater’s bargain with fate."

_________________
which pyre shall the moon ignite each hour
which pyre in my library crimson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 06:15 
Offline
french crew
User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2013, 15:10
Posts: 103
Just a small parenthesis to answer the initial thread.

Yesterday's school fair. Basically, what you get on these occasions is a bunch of teens dancing haphazardly to the sound of mainstream music while learning the basics of seduction and social life.

I don't know what happens to me lately : I just saw life. Its radiant victory beyond mundane appearances, really : like a huge cascade of laughter. As if all those kids in front of me were climbing the same hill without knowing, unaware of the strength pulling them forward and of their own secret enthusiasm.

How I love to be a part of that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 08:20 
Offline
french crew
User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2013, 13:26
Posts: 39
BSR wrote:
Chinorlz wrote:
Being a HUGE WWII enthusiast,


WTF?


phpBB [video]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 12:20 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2013, 11:21
Posts: 155
Location: Berlin
BSR wrote:
and the fact that nazis were probably the group of people who were the most 'technically minded' ever.


When it comes to construction and design of their uniforms/military equipment the German military under the fascist regime was in no way technically minded but actually plagued with romanticism of the great war. If you look through the evolution of the tunics from the very first "Waffenrock" up to the last short M44 Feldbluse you'll notice a theme of copying and simplifying that may look like technically superior at first glance but was all just necessity in a war that was already lost.

Same goes for any kind of weapon or equipment from that time. VERY overdesigned from the smallest handgun to the tank.

I can elaborate on that sometime since I actually own real paper patterns and guides to German WW2 Uniform construction.

_________________
Mein bratwurst has a first name, It's F-R-I-T-Z, Mein bratwurst has a second name, It's S-C-H-N-A-C-K-E-N-P-F-E-F-F-E-R-H-A-U-S-E-N.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 17:59 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2013, 18:33
Posts: 338
Mail-Moth wrote:
I don't know what happens to me lately : I just saw life. Its radiant victory beyond mundane appearances, really : like a huge cascade of laughter. As if all those kids in front of me were climbing the same hill without knowing, unaware of the strength pulling them forward and of their own secret enthusiasm.

How I love to be a part of that.

funny, you mentioned mori's buddhism in the stories thread, so i was just coming here to post the following, and it dovetails so nicely with the touching sentiment you've put down above, too.

Can you practice awareness? If you are "practicing" awareness, then you are being inattentive. So, be aware of inattention, you do not have to practice. You do not have to go to Burma, China, India, places which are romantic but not factual. I remember once travelling in a car in India with a group of people. I was sitting in the front with the driver. There were three behind who were talking about awareness, wanting to discuss with me what awareness was. The car was going very fast. A goat was in the road, but the driver did not pay much attention and ran over the poor animal. The gentlemen behind were discussing what is awareness, but they never knew what had happened! You laugh, but that is what we are all doing.

it's the small moments in life when you snap to for a brief instant and really see what's going on around you that really quicken the heart. whether that be from clothes, wwii or, heavens, even a school fair!

_________________
the eye of the beholder is in the eye of the beholder


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2013, 23:15 
Offline

Joined: 29 May 2013, 02:29
Posts: 19
BSR wrote:
merz wrote:
..??

there are people who take interest in military history research from different periods in time, etc.. Doesn't seem particularly wtf-worthy.. Would you like to explain what you meant by that though? IE: had he said 'american civil war' or 'russian civil war' or '7-day war', would it have made his statement less wtf-inducing?


Sure. Words matter sometimes i suppose, here i took this expression out of context on purpose to emphasize its incongruity. being a "huge enthusiast" for a war is a somewhat weird phrase don't you think?

BUT here is an interesting topic: my bewilderement comes from the systematic use of the "technical" point of view, which is very often favored by many of us, esp. Chinorlz. Of course there are areas where it is certainly legitimate (which ones?), but regarding war, it raises some difficult issues, all the more with WWII, and the fact that nazis were probably the group of people who were the most 'technically minded' ever.



Getting caught up on the last few days of postings :)

No of course I am not glorifying war or love war, but I am certainly interested in that time frame of our world history. Events within and surrounding it should never occur again, but the people from those at the top down to the infantrymen all have their own stories and experiences that should not be forgotten. We learn from the past (or so hope to) and apply this to the future. Evolution in technology, mindset, warfare etc. all occur along a continuum and being able to look back at what came from what is nothing short of fascinating.

Glad that this thread has also sparked some discussions which I will continue to read though!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2013, 07:53 
Offline
porter
User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2013, 14:02
Posts: 1169
i think the idea of war, the idea of man (and a man) committing themselves to the endeavour of war is inherently emotional and relies upon romanticising of certain themes and imagery in every instance and at every level, which had been reflected in field dress and, in some ways, still is reflected in it today. conventions have changed towards not even ergonomics so much as science fiction imagery (and technologies in science fiction rapidly becoming reality, the future inventing and informing the present)

but i kind of want bsr to talk a bit more on the subject of appreciation that exists on a purely technical level. i've been wondering about that for a while when discussing a certain segment of the audience in the previous venue and my attempts in understanding what the draw to them was besides discreet luxury and the idea of 'craftsmanship' that has some parallels with that jeff koons article referenced earlier..

and on a slightly different note, though quickening the heart no less than the preceding, i figured to give some credit here to the image that greets people on the splash page when they enter the forum - the work of Sigmar Polke, a photographer and painter whose output has been giving me pause for some time..

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

_________________
which pyre shall the moon ignite each hour
which pyre in my library crimson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2013, 18:55 
Offline

Joined: 02 Jun 2013, 20:03
Posts: 2
Herr Urst wrote:
I can elaborate on that sometime since I actually own real paper patterns and guides to German WW2 Uniform construction.

Ugh, my dad sold a tailor's guide for the m28 Dienstrock that's been kicking around my parent's basement forever. I've been trying to find it again ever since!

I also briefly had a totally scrapped guide to a kriegsmarine mess jacket as well but it was mostly illegible due to major water damage. :|


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2013, 20:02 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2013, 11:21
Posts: 155
Location: Berlin
CommieRabbit wrote:
a tailor's guide for the m28 Dienstrock


I think I have that somewhere... Instructions are all German though. I might translate the whole thing and upload it when I have the time.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Mein bratwurst has a first name, It's F-R-I-T-Z, Mein bratwurst has a second name, It's S-C-H-N-A-C-K-E-N-P-F-E-F-F-E-R-H-A-U-S-E-N.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2013, 17:27 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: 30 May 2013, 08:00
Posts: 374
what we see in butoh is " a corpse trying desperately to stand upright (tatsumi hijikata) "


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2013, 14:45 
Offline

Joined: 29 May 2013, 01:45
Posts: 2
As I pivot my work in a new direction, nice to read stories that rekindle the kid inside.

From:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/03/indian-man-jadav-molai-pa_n_1399930.html

Quote:
Deforestation and desertification are critical problems in India that have led to barren land, increased soil erosion, decreased agricultural production, and devastated local wildlife. However one Indian man has made a stand – by single-handedly planting and cultivating a 1,360 acre forest that is home to a complex, thriving ecosystem.


Jadav “Molai” Payeng started his project 30 years ago when he was still a teenager. Then, in 1979, flood waters washed a large number of snakes ashore on the local sandbar in Jorhat, some 350 km from Guwahati. When the waters receded, Payneg (who was 16 at the time) noticed the reptiles had died due to a lack of forestry.

“The snakes died in the heat, without any tree cover. I sat down and wept over their lifeless forms. It was carnage. I alerted the forest department and asked them if they could grow trees there. They said nothing would grow there. Instead, they asked me to try growing bamboo. It was painful, but I did it. There was nobody to help me. Nobody was interested,” said Payeng, who is now 47, to The Times of India.

Payeng chose to live on the sandbar, starting a life of isolation as he began work to create a new forest. Planting the seeds by hand, watering the plants in the morning and evening, and pruning them when required, he cultivated a huge natural reserve. After a few years, the sandbar was transformed into a bamboo thicket.

“I then decided to grow proper trees. I collected and planted them. I also transported red ants from my village, and was stung many times. Red ants change the soil’s properties . That was an experience,” Payeng recalled.

Over the years, the reserve has seen a huge variety of flora and fauna blossom on the sandbar, including endangered animals like the one-horned rhino and Royal Bengal tiger. “After 12 years, we’ve seen vultures. Migratory birds, too, have started flocking here. Deer and cattle have attracted predators,” claims Payeng . Unfortunately, locals reportedly killed a rhino which was seen in his forest, something that Payeng clearly disapproves of. ”Nature has made a food chain; why can’t we stick to it? Who would protect these animals if we, as superior beings, start hunting them?”

Amazingly, the Assam state forest department only learnt about Payeng’s forest in 2008 when a herd of some 100 wild elephants strayed into it after marauding through villages nearby. It was then that assistant conservator of forests Gunin Saikia met Payeng for the first time.

“We were surprised to find such a dense forest on the sandbar. Locals, whose homes had been destroyed by the pachyderms, wanted to cut down the forest, but Payeng dared them to kill him instead. He treats the trees and animals like his own children. Seeing this, we, too, decided to pitch in,” says Saikia. “We’re amazed at Payeng. He has been at it for 30 years. Had he been in any other country, he would have been made a hero.”



Read more: Indian Man Single-Handedly Plants 1,360 Acre Forest Subtropical Forest in India - Gallery Page 1 – Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 02:10 
Offline
french crew
User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2013, 13:26
Posts: 39
Herr Urst wrote:
BSR wrote:
and the fact that nazis were probably the group of people who were the most 'technically minded' ever.


When it comes to construction and design of their uniforms/military equipment the German military under the fascist regime was in no way technically minded but actually plagued with romanticism of the great war. If you look through the evolution of the tunics from the very first "Waffenrock" up to the last short M44 Feldbluse you'll notice a theme of copying and simplifying that may look like technically superior at first glance but was all just necessity in a war that was already lost.

Same goes for any kind of weapon or equipment from that time. VERY overdesigned from the smallest handgun to the tank.

I can elaborate on that sometime since I actually own real paper patterns and guides to German WW2 Uniform construction.


You are equating a fascination with technique with performance, which is about as naive as equating the cult of rationality with objectively good decisions. Germany took productivism to it's logical consequences with WWII, removing all moral barriers of the old world by mechanizing mass murder.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 254 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
cron

Forum hosting by ProphpBB | Software by phpBB | Report Abuse | Privacy