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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 05:39 
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speaking of which, how about rick's hunrod jewelry

Image


msrp: $40,320

compare: http://www.toyota.com/priusv/#!/Welcome
msrp: $26,750 starting ($36,045 as shown)

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2014, 09:22 
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^ i had to additionally laugh when i saw the tab-title "eco-friendly cars" in the link you posted cause it fits the discussion from the previous page ;) as long as rick's jewelry is eco-friendly too...! haha


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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 23:50 
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I've just come across this image:

Image

and this is the kind of cynicism that I find dangerous and unwarranted. It's based on the idea that certain consuming choices do not have any kind of impact, which is simply false. The fact that these choices do not have an impact of an extent that changes the entire system (and especially not over night) doesn't at all mean they have no impact at all! There are numerous examples of a decrease in certain production chains simply because of a change in consumers' habits. In fact, this is the cheapest kind of excuse to consume as much as possible and no matter how, since after all, "nothing helps anyway". It's worse than a blind consumerism because knowledge allows for a freedom of choice, and thus it comes with responsibility.


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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2014, 23:59 
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i think its more the idea that ethics in production/doing business do not have a good return on investment because consumers have already acknowledged/internalised low ethics/quick and dirty everything. its the norm. you could say that consumer education could lead to there being greater demand for ethics, but this does not seem to be in the interests of large incumbents. plus greater resource scarcity in the coming years will make ethics seem less relevant to the average consumer than comfort/quality of life. even though they are often closely connected and very relevant to a niche market.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 00:07 
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ah, yeah, it could be understood also that way. good point ;)
regarding the education of consumers, it is interesting how the value "cheap" plays such an important role in everyday contexts, where when someone says what they've bought they immediately have to add how cheap it was as if this is some kind of additional point they've scored (and i'm speaking of people who aren't poor in any significant way). and having such a starting point in mind, changing consuming habits (and so the values they're based on) is indeed very hard.


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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 00:27 
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its making the consumer (in some ways your opponent) feel as though they have won/met some kind of personal victory conditions in having a transaction with you.

edit: i went downstairs to check the mail directly after writing this. here is the first thing i found:

Image

apparently even the holidays are some kind of competitive/adversarial arrangement in which one must triumph.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2014, 00:35 
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:lol:

yes, it's about the game (which is why consuming is so much fun and important for the masses, it's the game we could say, and as Johan Huizinga nicely described, game is one of the key elements of human culture).

“We have to conclude, therefore, that civilization is, in its earliest phases, played. It does not come from play like a baby detaching itself from the womb: it arises in and as play, and never leaves it.”
(from his book Homo Ludens)

p.s.
Another nice quote from the same book:

“The judge's wig, however, is more than a mere relic of antiquated professional dress. Functionally it has close connections with the dancing masks of savages. It transforms the wearer into another ″being″. And it is by no means the only very ancient feature which the strong sense of tradition so peculiar to the British has preserved in law. The sporting element and the humour so much in evidence in British legal practice is one of the basic features of law in archaic society.”


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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2014, 05:36 
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my favourite is that famous quip on the subject, from william james: "The moral flabbiness born of the exclusive worship of the bitch-goddess SUCCESS. That — with the squalid cash interpretation put on the word success — is our national disease."

it's always fun, once you know what to look for, watching marketers walk that treacherous tightrope of convincing the consumer they're getting an unheard-of steal, on an item that is nevertheless intrinsically priceless.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2014, 22:47 
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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2014, 00:15 
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Last edited by ternlef on 15 Jan 2015, 01:53, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 20:32 
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Last edited by ternlef on 15 Jan 2015, 01:53, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 20:39 
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minor caveat here being that this comes from the same person who once stated that the ethical cost of electricity is too high and that humanity should return to pre-industrial tech level. i love the guy but when he gets going it sounds like the second coming of ned ludd.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2014, 20:49 
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(100 posts btw, requesting Title: "DopeRad")


Last edited by ternlef on 15 Jan 2015, 01:54, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2014, 22:25 
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Last edited by omen on 11 Nov 2016, 16:39, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2014, 23:41 
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Last edited by ternlef on 15 Jan 2015, 01:54, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2014, 00:08 
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first i'd like to try and get some kind of agreement on something that seems pretty undeniable to me: quality of life has increased somewhat over the past century. i know that the definition of this could vary significantly among participants in this debate, but its pretty safe to say that the population growth that has brought us here is reflective of this increase. we don't have to deal with infant/childhood mortality as much. we're dying in fewer numbers to different sets of diseases from the ones our ancestors had to fear and suffer. true, there is colossal amount of waste and artificial scarcity in service of the financial sector is absolutely a thing, but on average we're better off. the ways in which we are no longer better off largely deal with there being so many of us.

so how do you talk about population control with the warm glow of humanistic notions, social justice, etc.. ? I mean, i'm struggling with this one myself and it seems like everybody else is too. geoffrey's facebook feed is a stream of various environmental, peace and social justice causes. some i agree with more than others. some just seem like clickbait syndication. some suffer from massive inaccuracies and some are plain disinformation, which isn't that uncommon with clickbait. i don't imagine him to seriously subscribe to many of those because he has struck me as a person with a good deal of understanding in our past interactions.

now i'm not going to go through every view expressed by this person and do fact-checking because i don't have interest or energy. still, the basic grasp of physics that my education affords me yields an understanding of nuclear power as a relatively safe and efficient way of addressing many of the same environmental issues championed by the very same people who seem to have gone on a crusade against it. and much of this crusade is built atop of popular misconceptions about nuclear power, physics and science in general.

when i see the kind of rabid 'fighting for causes' that seems to side-step such inconveniences as hard data and proven fact, i respond to it with the same distemper i'd cast at some manic street preacher telling me the end is really fucking nigh. call it a personal aversion or whatever. I strive for the objective truth and understanding in all things. so when challenging the whole foaming-at-the-mouth 'no nukes!' fevered pitch with some of that understanding, never mind far better, safer ways of approaching it like thorium cycle or this newfangled hybrid induction fusion that lockheed-martin seems to be on the verge of handing us, I point out that present-day technology gives us better results than fossil fuel burning. the response to that is that fossil fuel burning is also terribad and must be abolished in favour of various assorted greenery. And that sounds pretty good, except yields from wind, water and sun together aren't currently on the same level where they'd be able to take over for all other means of energy production in anywhere near long term. Some of them come with their own sets of problems that are, you've guessed it, also decried by environmentalists (damming rivers/stream diversion) and assorted NIMBYs (wind farms ruin my property's views and value..) and so on and so on.

when you get further into that conversation, the opposing side concedes that the facts do not correspond to opinions expressed because they are trying to 'emotionalise the issues' in order for them to get attention through hyperbole. what they would really like is a return to pre-industrial 'harmony with nature' - and this is where i point out the various species of animal that primitive man, apparently he who can do no wrong and exists in harmony with nature, has driven to complete extinction long before we were burning coal or powering light bulbs. or even using stocking frames. all apologies, nedder. some part of the reason behind the status quo of both production and consumption relating to ethics that we've got going today is that there are just so damn many of us. and yes, hurrdurr, there's capitalism. and that notion that you must market everything with the idea of 'luxury' because the line between actual, real needs and desires has been so blurred.

somewhere in all of this there's the sense of that some of this neo-luddite romanticism is a marketing pitch. a return to simpler times of manual labour and leisure time, the product of which is only affordable at retail to the kind of consumer that not only can't relate, but very likely directly contributes to the cause of what people like geoffrey are said to be fighting/speaking out against, probably more so than your average coal powerplant worker from middle america somewhere. is that reality suspended somehow when you pin a 'no nukes' badge to a $3000 coat? a display of uncommon ethics in consumption?

Image

all this catholic discipline and guilty conscience of privilege in a world where you've got more competition for survival than your granddaddy. perhaps we'll make like they do in the phillipines and flog ourselves halfway to death in penance for that unforgivable sin of having been born someplace other than a third world slum.

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2014, 00:23 
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a lot of the rhetoric in question recalls the cliche of the "finish your greens because there are starving children elsewhere" ilk...

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2014, 01:09 
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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2014, 01:20 
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yes, jackie chan for solar efficiency! i mean, this isn't my area of expertise beyond pop sci keeping up on what is going on, and it could be pretty interesting to have distributed power generation, but something tells me that we're some ways off from that for a good number of reasons and only a couple of those are technological..

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 Post subject: Re: The context
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2014, 01:21 
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Last edited by ternlef on 15 Jan 2015, 01:54, edited 1 time in total.

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