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 Post subject: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 03:43 
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Hi all, I thought maybe a separate introduction thread could be useful for new users, migrants, and well known faces to leave by a few words (or more) about themselves.

As for me, I've browsed sufu and sz for quite a few years as a spectator more than a contributor. Hopefully i'll be more of a contributor here. Not that i find any qualms with lurking, but i do find, in the age of dispensable text and images, it odd not to contribute. we'll see.

A recent discussion with me, merz, and deux_oiseux on sufu (maybe we can port it over here?) prompted the fact that i tend to visit certain forums out of habit rather than interest in content. The said discussion was also rather out of place, made evident by a the different members resulting to e-persona banter (sh*ts were threatened).

Anyways, goodbye/hello :D


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 04:52 
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.oh well.

I'm technically running this place.

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 05:00 
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as long as the other hand is on the steering wheel, we'd be heading in the right place


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 05:07 
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.sure. and so I hold the bloody phone with my long tentacles.

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 05:44 
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I came from an anime discussion imageboard, I've lurked styleforum, stylezeitgeist and superfuture for roughly 3 years, superfuture is the only one on which I post frequently. I was drawn here by how great the music thread is!

I am much less intelligent than the majority of posters here, but I try to contribute where I can


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 08:39 
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phpBB [video]


i found myself having the same thought over on end - these conversations i was having with folks i had met off of sz over the years in the private confines of something like facebook chat were, maybe, worth sharing the way we used to before things got seriously weird back there. and maybe the people who wanted to contribute to those conversations but, for whatever reason, weren't able to before would have an opportunity to as well. anyway, fast forward a bit and here we are. glad to be sharing the place with the lot of you.

also, jin - warren ellis the author or warren ellis from the dirty three? or have i asked you that before?

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 09:49 
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autor. The Beard. Second Ellis could be refered as The Long Beard then.

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nothing familiar as you can see

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 09:58 
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had a quick read of the related sufu content and feel kind of distressed
from what i understand the discussions more or less revolves around trying to break down the 'internet ~~~fashionista~~~ psyche' for whatever reason, trying to rationalise sartorial discourse of specific individuals (most prominently those founded in message board communities) in their own world.

i've definitely tried to map that road but found myself more and more frustrated to the point where i just became upset trying to understand what pivotal moments resulted in the net product. needless to say i gave up and devoted my precious time to other things

despite my resistance to the topic it seems like it's cropping up more and more often, like people want to try and frustrate themselves
despite all the available content on the topic i havent come across any content that inspired me to take it up again and why would i, its not my business.
the deepest, darkest psychological wards cant recreate in an effort quantify these experiences, so i dont think i can by mentally juggling around situations and measuring them to my unrepresentative experiences
messages on the internet dont really give a strong perspective on someones life so you cant reliably piece together these fragments and produce anything meaningful

like, i don't know what to say - maybe my interests have simply shifted. at any rate i don't know why so much effort has been devoted to what i think is a foolish endeavor
or perhaps i've misunderstood the crux of the argument

in light of that i still don't understand the goal of these arguments.
what are the participants trying to achieve?
are their observations valid and applicable to the populations they claim?
why are people so bent on burning?
outside of the most vein individuals and members on internet forums who really cares?
is this worth anyones time?

during my daily commutes to the university library i've found myself internally chanting 'relax ego, vegetative mind flourish' whenever i don't let my mind wander or something annoys me; kind of keeps me in check, perceive merit in everything and fend off negative reactions/things not worth my time
this is kind of how i feel about this argument

p.s. found a dope ass spot for awkward selfies but recently i've been stuck in work and it's been too awkward for me to snap a pic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8PLsHxJm9Y&t=6m2s


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 11:04 
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to be fair, its mostly my fault because the subject is an area of personal interest and i bring it up a lot because i feel that both my thoughts can advance by way of conversation past those points where they have come to rest at the end of the preceding, and because i think the lot of you guys have a good bit of experience and understanding to share. whatever structure is created in the course of probing this stuff merely serves the purpose of minimising the instances of getting stuck in a loop. we do it anyway, as some people drop out of these communities and new participants run aground on the same. but i don't think sartorial discourse is something that requires rationalisation or justification. nor does the subject frustrate me in the least, quite the opposite..

so, yes, i understand why someone may not be interested in having the sort of discussion full well, and i do not require it of them, but also don't see the harm in inquiry that, to me anyway, feels very natural and carries no negative connotation in and of itself. the challenges of conveying meaningful and formative experiences via text on the internet are apparent to me, but i would not think it a lost cause to try and share our experiences pertaining to this and other things because :communication is hard:, next up: 'poast fit fuccboi'..?

in light of that i still don't understand the goal of these arguments - to understand the mechanisms of appreciating things, the value of which is deeply personal and highly subjective. which parts of the experience are social and what are their ramifications, what is left when you filter the preceding and why, how these things come to form using personal experience. how, say, two people from completely different backgrounds develop appreciation along eerily similar vectors..

what are the participants trying to achieve? - can't speak for everyone, but mostly a more detailed understanding of self/others/mental processes in and of themselves.

are their observations valid and applicable to the populations they claim? - this is a difficult one to comment on, and i try to limit the scope to my own experience. for the same reason i also take interest in yours. any patterns derived from this exchange are dependent upon the participants acting in good faith.


why are people so bent on burning?
outside of the most vein individuals and members on internet forums who really cares?
is this worth anyones time?


sorry, but aren't a lot of these questions already answered by the mere fact that people here and elsewhere are, er, having this conversation? apparently just asking the question is making you very defensive, so perhaps a few conclusions to be drawn there already. instead of asking 'who really cares?' are you prepared to claim that no-one does?

such wonderfully self-conscious glorification of the vegetative meshes amusingly with that bit roundhouse wrote elsewhere: [quote=roundhouse]the closest example i can think of of the truly oblivious, indifferent and idontgiveafuck mindset towards presenting oneself would be those certain academics you come across who wear the most dreary, humdrum and inoffensive fits composed of a cardigan, slacks and some orthopedic shoes[/quote] my experience with 'those certain academic types' actually showed them to be far more self-conscious than your average goof ninja, agonising over layers upon layers of socioeconomic subtext and correctness of every button on their plain cardigan, the make and the model and the year of their car, et cetera. some of such people, some that i have known quite closely, live in a constant agony of possible misinterpretations, harsh judgements and assumptions. this is not in any way different than the self-administered mantras of letting your vegetative self out, girl. in the sense that the closest thing vegetative you can aspire to is Terry Schiavo. now there is nonchalance thats hard to argue with.

It may not be worth your time, i can appreciate that. And, heaven knows, no-one mandates you to take part in a discussion you don't find worthwhile.

And, for a moment, getting back to the possibility of life not being a spectacle, roundhouse again: [quote=roundhouse]the possibility, as you say, should be open but i don't think it's available to who ever frequents fashion forums or discussion pertaining to it. [/quote] Is it simply not possible that I may be, for example, aware of other people in retrospect but not in the course of every waking moment comprising every experience?

I mean, you could take it further and suggest that absolutely everything is some internalised social metagame and we truly have no personal bias towards beauty of any sort besides what we're conditioned into since before we're even born. that would make a more interesting argument than simply saying 'you talk about these things on an internet forum, therefore your life is a performance put on for the benefit of others'

that one i just call what it is, which is straight-up bullshit.

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 11:19 
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i am really trying hard to understand what all of you are talking about, but i don't think i managed :D can someone link to the discussion in question or at least explain the topic?


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 11:25 
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sure. it probably begins with this post right here.

from there on its mostly a conversation between myself and roundhouse, with deux_o chiming in a post, and i still owe a proper reply to both besides these cursory points made in the above. apparently this discussion taking center stage (it often does..) is making some folks uncomfortable. i get it, but also don't consider the worth of discussing a subject based on 'yo how many real du's outside y'all internet nerds care bout dis shit nigga' or similar logic.

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 11:49 
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^ thanks!

on a different note, this is maybe a good thread to say that I am so glad we have a forum without a single buying&selling thread. i know merz insisted on that back when we started the whole thing via fashionology, and now i see how much it matters. i hope we can keep it that way.

as for the introduction, i am not on any other forums, and together with Jin, merz and others joined this place after leaving sz due to their (for me unacceptable) moderation policy.


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 12:26 
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i didn't pose the response because i don't care about the argument but because i don't understand why the argument exists and what it seeks to prove especially given the method chosen

it's not a lost cause, like scaling a sand dune while wearing ski's is not a lost cause.
i can't speak for everyone but i'm sure a lot of us can say we have been in situations where we have arranged to meet someone who up until that point had only interacted through a single medium (maybe the internet) and perhaps profiled them accordingly only to find that the reality shared no semblance
maybe not true of all circumstance but enough circumstance to validate the point

'how, say, two people from completely different backgrounds develop appreciation along eerily similar vectors'
this is actually very interesting but it also more or less comes down to quantifying brain matter which is mostly a mystery even to masters of neurology, to say nothing of Prof. Tonegawa's work
like, how do you dissect the objective experiences from the random flashes of light? which parts irrelevant? are any irrelevant?

im not so certain about the defensive part but i appreciate your concern(?). im not sure when the thread is titled 'shit you hate' and the conversation spurred from a photo posted with presumably ill-intentions and is maybe over a decade old that um, 'free of negative connotation's' can be negotiated. im not suggesting that people shouldn't do whatever they like but that by invoking a bit of emotion into what otherwise seems like a contrived and monotonous discussion to me i could re appropriate my understanding and 'see the light' ... if possible.

'self-conscious glorification of the vegetative meshes'
this was something i am aware of but forgot to touch on in my previous post
maybe it is, maybe it isn't - i'd rather confront each encounter in naive optimism than drown out my bitter urges with dopamine drips

'Is it simply not possible that I may be, for example, aware of other people in retrospect but not in the course of every waking moment comprising every experience'
sure, but what do you hope to construct using a unrepresentative experience?

i don't know if i was trying to suggest or implied whatever you're implying in the final paragraph but if i did perhaps i miscommunicated something? i kind of want to comment on it but i really don't know where to begin. can we just pretend that is a gross miscommunication on my part that resulted in a misinterpretation?
i guess to add something and maybe even touch the core of my torment (putting aside the arbitrary experience considerations), is there substantial foundation to even begin trying to profile, are we trying to establish a hierarchy of validating the REAL ballers? whatever the case, i feel like sufficient details for any of this is missing and that a number of important steps leading the conclusion of 'intent' are missing. so with all this uncertainty doesn't it indicate that this is nothing more than an elaborate ritual involving excessive arm waving and shrugging?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueYYVRTWmjY&t=145m18s


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 13:26 
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e: I'm unfunny


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 14:49 
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ternlef, i might be misunderstanding your point, but do you think that it is misleading (and unfair) to discuss someone's style or its evolution without that person taking (or willing to take) part in the discussion?
i'm not sure how well this related to that discussion on sufu, but i'm inclined to go along with this idea.


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 17:24 
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My name is Hans, drinking has ruined my life...I'm 31 years ooooooooold

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 17:31 
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Herr Urst wrote:
My name is Hans, drinking has ruined my life...I'm 31 years ooooooooold


so say we all!

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ternlef wrote:
because i don't understand why the argument exists and what it seeks to prove especially given the method chosen


it isn't an argument, it doesn't have an objective besides broadening the understanding of those interested and the method used is an open exchange of personal thoughts/feelings/approaches, in what is presumed to be good faith and sincere curiosity about how diverse we are in the way we go about appreciating things. and despite language being the format used, part of the reason we're talking about it is because a lot of things are communicated with low specificity past a certain point. we've some common broadly-held definitions for things that aren't particularly accurate in describing how we feel or precisely how it is that we go about feeling and what other cues are invoked in the making of decisions that aren't rational.

i don't know, clothes aren't even the point here. they make for a great example to work with respect to aesthetic bias because they are a sort of choice that absolutely everyone has to make, even the kind of hypothetical character that roundhouse proposed for a person truly free from the kind of self-awareness that is his reflection in the eyes of the onlookers. but we're not talking about clothing when we're having that conversation, more like trying to get people to explain in their own words, in their own minds the forces at work when they decide that a triangle means more to them than a circle or a square, etc.. i think thats a pretty worthwhile conversation to have, too.. and the kind of stuff you're bound to stumble onto along the way interests me very much. people routinely make certain choices between things of extremely subjective value that, for some, actually eclipse, override the whole 'rational actor' idea..

i just wanted to clarify for you what the actual question was, because it seemed like either the subject was not relevant enough for you to participate (I understand, but why detract from those who want to) or you didn't understand what i'm trying to get at, which is partly my fault. it feels like very often the example used to illustrate some of these things derails the conversation too. I didn't exactly help with the way that bit on sufu started out. and yes, there is more of a backstory to why i used that image.

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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 19:31 
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Ternlef:
A few points i'd like to address. Firstly, yes, communication is hard. Whatever confusion you have from the mentioned discussions is entirely warranted; it's a discussion that's been going on forever and over different discussion boards. The references made to certain people or cases would only be 100% intelligible to me and merz, in that sense it would be a semi closed conversation, and we're guilty for that. Furthermore, i have absolutely no skill for compression or brevity of speech, and whatever argument i offer doesn't come with a guarantee of mechanical precision.

ternlef wrote:
despite my resistance to the topic it seems like it's cropping up more and more often, like people want to try and frustrate themselves

Second point: I'm not sure how to react to your slight enmity towards, in what i perceive to be, both the subject matter at hand and the way in which it gets discussed. trivialising people's effort to sketch and idea as a 'foolish endeavour' and a waste of time does more frustration, actually. if it's TL;DR or too foolish for you, maybe just ignore it? and if enough people ignore it, it'd go extinct. that fact that it hasn't suggests some people are interested.

other bits and pieces:
ternlef wrote:
messages on the internet dont really give a strong perspective on someones life so you cant reliably piece together these fragments and produce anything meaningful
Yes, we work with what we've got though, in spite of the delusions and wrong turns that extrapolation can produce. I have no problem with taking a step back looking at the discussion as pure word play, conjecture. No one was claiming that their speculations be anything more than speculations. At most they're just whispers of the truth.

ternlef wrote:
i can't speak for everyone but i'm sure a lot of us can say we have been in situations where we have arranged to meet someone who up until that point had only interacted through a single medium (maybe the internet) and perhaps profiled them accordingly only to find that the reality shared no semblance
interesting point, deserves it's own discussion. one i've thought about for a long time. whatever my daily 'reality' is, it isn't anything like what i've presented on discussion forums; i'm mostly simply spoken, and more of a listener, during my day to day, which is quite divergent from the texts i post. i'm sure most of the best bloggers, tumblr'ers, and instagrammers aren't as fantastical as the images they curate. i actually think kanye west is not kanye west. just a thought.

Finally note:
I think if we compiled a few posts on the discussion of Authenticity (some from the aforementioned sufu link, and some from the general discussion a few months back?) into one standalone thread it'd help other readers and potential responders.


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 19:39 
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merz, just saw your post. clarifies what i was trying to get across much better. specially this " part of the reason we're talking about it is because a lot of things are communicated with low specificity past a certain point."

rilu wrote:
ternlef, i might be misunderstanding your point, but do you think that it is misleading (and unfair) to discuss someone's style or its evolution without that person taking (or willing to take) part in the discussion?
i'm not sure how well this related to that discussion on sufu, but i'm inclined to go along with this idea.
rilu, the discussions previous the ternlef's post is guilty of this. I tend to refer to non-participants as examples because the illustration serves as a shortcut.

oh yeah, is it possible to change usernames??? to clarify, when merz refers to 'roundhouse' (screename on sufu) he refers to me.


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 Post subject: Re: member introductions
PostPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 21:44 
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I don't like standalone threads for things as a general rule. i avoid it where i can. if someone feels like making some kind of a thread for moving all of that discussion together, I think it can be done..but for the most part i like when the conversation happens naturally. that is best for preserving context, even if somewhat less possible regarding this subject because so much conversation has already happened elsewhere. Anyway, glanced over to sufu to notice how unhappy the locals were with our discussion there. Perhaps its best that we're all here in absence of those folks who will invest considerable effort into making from scratch some animated gifs to the effect of how they don't give a fuck.

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